"Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."
Matthew 7:5
One of the few good things in the Bible. It's from the famous "judge not, that ye be not judged" bit.
First, I would like to state that I am in no way affiliated with the Texas Aggie Conservatives, the organisation which circulated the pamphlets below, and I certainly do not necessarily agree with their conclusions about Islam. I have, however, checked the Qur'anic and hadith quotes they used and confirmed that Islamic teachings were not grossly misrepresented by them though I suspect that they have not actually read the scriptures themselves. For example, if they were genuinely familiar with the Qur'an, they would also know that 4:34 also talks about denying sex to and beating disobedient wives - that's a really conspicuous omission in their reference of the verse. I also dislike the factoids about honour killing and female genital mutilation because they are more cultural practices than they are actual Islamic ones. There are far more juicier and accurate examples of um, "gender inequality" in the Religion of Submission that they could have used, is what I'm trying to get at.
Oh, no, I'm definitely not criticising the practices and teachings of Islam here. Islam is always right. Islam is the super best religion in the world, hokay? I repeat: these are not my pamphlets,
In some parts of the world, the "face" consists only of the eyes and the bridge of the nose.
The mouth and chin is presumably part of the neck.
Stoning, what a rock-and-roll way to die.
Took all that in? Good.
The reason why I write far more about Christianity in comparison to Islam in my weblog here is because many Christians are frequently hypocrites who pretend that their faith is so much more wholesome compared to everyone else's and the Texas Aggie Conservatives is one of the worst species of Christian hypocrites there is - also, (a) Islam already has pretty bad PR (b) I just happen to know the Bible better than the Qur'an, and (c) I don't want to die. Christianity is hardly the bastion of women's liberation in the Church's long and malignant history, and in many aspects, the Biblical treatment of women is often worse than the Qur'an's.
The flyers are also laughable because a lot of their admittedly justified denunciations of Islam can easily be reversed onto the circulators' own Jesus cult. There are numerous references in the Bible to how men are created superior to woman and should have authority over the physically inferior sex. And many supposedly holy and righteous men in the Bible are frequently polygamists as well. In fact in Leviticus, God explicitly said that the market price of women are only about half the worth of men in shekels.
The issue is basically this.
Consider these Biblical verses,
- "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee" - Genesis 3:16. God on how women deserve to be miserable, to suffer in childbirth and to be subjugated by men.
- "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's" - Exodus 20:17. God says that a man's wife is his property, much like livestock in the Ten Commandments. This is reaffirmed in Deuteronomy 5:21.
- "And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even, et cetera, et cetera..." - Leviticus 15:19-33. God talking about how menstruating women are dirty, icky and full of cooties.
- "If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you." - Deuteronomy 22:23-24. God says that a woman who got raped in the city and did not cry for help loud enough needs to be fucking stoned to death.
- "If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days." - Deuteronomy 22:28-29. God commands that if you rape a virgin, you get to marry her so long as you pay some cash.
- "And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life." - Matthew 19:29. Jesus says that he will reward you if you ditch your wife (and everyone else) in his name. Luke agrees in 18:29-30.
- "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." - 1 Corinthians 11:3. Women should be subordinate to men the same way that men are subordinate to the Son of God™.
- "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." 1 Corinthians 34-35. Women are not allowed to speak in church.
- "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." 1 Timothy 2:11-12. In other words, women aren't allowed to teach men and generally need to shut the fuck up 'cause men are the boss of them.
Dismiss all these pharisaical squabbles between pious pots and zealous kettles about how their own faith degrades women less in comparison to other faiths - they are, in essence, all of one colour. I am an atheist and when I say that I believe men and women are equal, you know that I am telling the truth.
That's because I am better than them.
P.S. In fact, I am better than even my lapsed Presbyterian girlfriend who thinks that women are naturally malicious and are inferior to men, and that they deserve everything they get and then some. She never made it clear if she was joking or not.
P.P.S. I know that a conservative does not a Christian make (and vice versa) but according to this 2009 Public Religion Research Institute poll, US conservative activists are "almost exclusively Christian".
A godless male feminist,
k0k s3n w4i
19 comments:
I wonder what the Christians think when they read these verses, particularly the women.
Destructive Criticism - What purpose does that serve other than to stroke your own ego?
reading things like this make my blood boil.
but perhaps, they dont follow those teachings anymore? at least not till the T. i would like to see how some of the modern women will react if their husbands ask them to shut the F up just because they are more superior. hah!
i like the cooties bit xD
u misspelled ur watermark =d
lovealynna: you know what? i wonder about the exact same things. i was hoping some passing christian woman would speak up.
An atheist too: many. none of which you were willing to explore. for one thing, i am not looking to be constructive. i am not interested in helping religious people be more gender conscientious. i aim to ridicule and destroy the reputation of these religions; to immunise uninfected people from their influences. christianity and its sister religions will not be forthright about the less than pleasant aspects of their institutions. they'll only tell potential converts the good stuff. i aim to expose such fraudulent evangelising. and on a side note, destructive criticism of a destructive criticism: your ego must be cosmic in proportions. as jesus said: "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."
Zzzyun: modern christians have a cafeteria approach to their faith - they pick and choose. but misogyny is still deeply embedded in christian communities. take this news story i wrote about for example: no good deed goes unpunished in catholicism. a pregnant woman was severely ill with primary pulmonary hypertension in a catholic hospital. a nun was on an ethics committee which decided that an abortion was indicated to save the woman's life. the nun was excommunicated. let's not even go into the fact that women are not allowed in the priesthood of the catholic church and many other denominations. let's not even go into the fact that pretty much every female anti-feminist in the US is a christian woman.
Phoebs: you would T^T
beve: no, i didn't =d that's just how the "4" looks like for that font.
Destructive is your aim, I see.
Hmm..I hope you're not trying to play moral police here, cause moral policing is the last thing a moral society needs.
Just leave these religious people alone.
We all have brains, right?
An Atheist too:
"Just leave these religious people alone."
i will leave them alone when they stop oppressing women, stop denying homosexuals their rights and stop blowing innocent people up. i will leave them alone when catholics stop forcing women to continue with their life-threatening pregnancies and stop fighting contraception use in third world countries; aggravating the spread of AIDS and making people produce children they can't feed. i will leave them alone when jehovah witnesses stop brainwashing and forcing their kids to deny life-saving blood transfusions before they are even old enough to decide what they should believe in. i will leave them alone when the religious stop fighting proper science education and studies, stop denying evolutionary facts, stem cell research and anthropogenic global warming. i will leave them alone when they stop executing muslim apostates for leaving their religion; i will leave them alone when they retract their bounties and death sentences on the heads of salman rushdie, taslima nasrin, ayaan hirsi ali, lars vilk, and many, many, many more. i will leave them alone when they can leave me and the rest of the world alone.
if you have so much time to criticise me, why don't you criticise all these religiously-inspired bigotry, injustices, ignorance and cruelty instead? they actively engender suffering and deaths in this world. i write blog posts exposing those things. and you choose me to chastise?! holy fucking shit.
"We all have brains, right?"
that's what i thought. then i met you.
@An Atheist too,
I thought that some religious group are trying to play moral police too!
"I'ma let you finish, but I hope those religious groups are not trying to play moral police here, cause moral policing is the last thing a moral society needs."
oic...
Sorry if I've offended you...peace
# "And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life." - Matthew 19:29. Jesus says that he will reward you if you ditch your wife in his name. Luke agrees in 18:29-30.
to be fair, senwai, the verse doesn't exclusively refer to ditching just the wife, it also includes the entire family.
and Jesus doesn't say anything. all holy books consist of interpretations made by human beings, just like you and i.
i am in no way religious, but i think a lot of it is not to be solely blamed on the religion, but also the culture itself (as you yourself pointed out with the reference to female genital mutilation).
kudos to you for standing up for women and believing in gender equality - however, at the end of the day it is up to these women to fight for their own rights. and let us not forget, if there were to be true gender equality, this would mean that the fairer sex forgo their "right" to demand things like, a 10 carat diamond ring, a honeymoon in paris, a house, celebrating anniversaries etc. tell me know, how many women are willing to give that up?
oh btw, have you read "infidel" by ayaan hirsi ali? it's a book on the muslim faith. you might be interested.
A Religious Person: amen to that :)
An Atheist too: do not worry about offending me. i'm just flabbergasted that you, allegedly an atheist yourself, could not see what motivates me to speak out. i am irreverent and rude: these i know. but in comparison to what religious people do? i just think that your priorities are fucked up, mate.
minwi: "to be fair, senwai, the verse doesn't exclusively refer to ditching just the wife, it also includes the entire family."
you're right! that makes it a perfectly reasonable thing to do then! no wait...
i understand perfectly how religion is not the sole cause of gender inequality, but it's definitely one of the strongest perpetuating forces of the phenomenon in the world today. so long as these holy books exist and they continue to be revered as the so-called word of god, people will always have a ready excuse to subjugate women.
read this story,
Baptist Church Silenced 15-year-old Rape Victim and Made Her Apologize for Being Raped
she said, "[The pastor] told me that I should be happy that I didn't live in Old Testament times because I would have been stoned."
you are a strong, liberated, well-educated woman, minwi. you have no need of anyone to speak for you (and i certainly wouldn't dare to be so presumptuous). i speak for women like the girl in the news report. i speak for the women living in islamic theocracies which care more about the alleged words of gods than their welfare. i speak for the victims of female genital mutilation and stonings. i speak for women in predominantly christian countries where rape victims who got pregnant from their horrible circumstances are not allowed to undergo abortion. i speak for every woman who is cowed, beaten, tortured and oppressed in the name of god.
besides, this post is targeted more at christian posturing and hypocrisy. they attacked islam's position on women through islamic scriptures, while ignoring the misogyny in their own texts. my goal is to point that out.
however, at the end of the day it is up to these women to fight for their own rights. and let us not forget, if there were to be true gender equality, this would mean that the fairer sex forgo their "right" to demand things like, a 10 carat diamond ring, a honeymoon in paris, a house, celebrating anniversaries etc. tell me know, how many women are willing to give that up?
oh trust me. so long as guys want to get into women's pants, those lovely extras will continue to flow. women are still the unofficial gatekeepers of romantic relationships - and women are still the ones with wombs and the 9-month burdens. i won't begrudge women these privileges :)
i am familiar with ayaan hirsi ali, her background and her activism against islam - but i try to avoid reading works by atheists. i prefer to dive straight into holy books clean of any preconceptions. i want to explore what's fundamentally wrong with these faiths on my own.
besides, i'd much rather read fun stuff. i just finished reading that new bartimaeus book: the ring of solomon. if you're interested (and i know you are), i'm reviewing it in my next post :)
i have this really convoluted ass-long comment to make cos with these issues i always feel like implicated like that lol.... thing is i 'd like your opinion on this--- the idea that men and women are equal is basically the front everyone puts up to be socially acceptable particularly in the presence of the fairer(ugh) sex, cos theres nth sexier than a male feminist eh? lol but the extent of that belief really is suspect...... u see i saw some commentary leading off from a slate article on anal sex survey LOL which led off to this blog inhabited by misogynistic pundits
exhibit A
B Dalton
Off topic question for Roissey.
Does being a high IQ person raised in a traditional environment present problems for men in today’s world? Here is what I mean. If you are high IQ and educated it is very difficult to dumb yourself down to deal with today’s women. It doesn’t matter if they have advanced degrees. I have been in the company of women who have doctorates and I still consider them educated dummies. Not to mention if they are Leftist which most of them are. Leftism make a person a complete fucking moron.
But there is also the moral dimension with Game. Many white men that were brought up with a traditional morality look upon Game with a type of revulsion. Such men don’t want to have to engage in Machiavellian tactics to find and keep a women. Add to the mix that the overwhelming majority of women are not the intellectual equal of a man and, in today’s culture, not his moral equal and it is very hard not to have a certain degree of misogyny.
I don’t doubt Game’s validity. I am just disgusted that I have to resort to it. I’m tempted to say women aren’t worth it. If the android female sexbots were available, I wouldn’t waste one fucking second on a woman. At that point, I wouldn’t care if they found their own fucking planet."
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/10/07/anal-sex-the-new-technicality/#comment-212178
which sparked off an enthusiastic discussion abt the Game- it works! with anal sex relegated to background fodder, maybe you'd like to check out the blog it seems interesting even if i am not reconcilable to the idea behind it. from my exp the notion of male superiority is quite prevalent and while i have spent my life trying to fight that i now know it is useless to argue against a belief- it's always backed by indefensible logic-and not a smart thing to do either, the weapons available to women are much more eloquent than verbal tirades eg measured feeding of male egos to keep him satisfied and happy to dispense WHAT WE WANT, basically another side to THE GAME- that makes me doubly sad because it makes the idea of an equal relationship with the opposite sex now seems like a fabled myth, or one filled with dark undercurrents of powerplay..... meaning u always have to adopt certain tactics with men to let them think they're getting what they want, being upfront and honest isnt really all it's cracked up to be (sighhh) i've heard time and again firsthand reports of glowing results, if one is impervious and crafty enough u will have manhandling down pat...... now that has made me unable to shake the belief of THE GAME but i really wish otherwise, i'd hate to live by the rules of it- i dont have to, rulebreaking is like de facto norm for me, but frankly it hasnt served me very well :)
also from the comments(i have no life lol): "For those who won't believe in god, some turn to cock." LOL
and, http://twitter.com/Jesus_M_Christ
ap: "i 'd like your opinion on this--- the idea that men and women are equal is basically the front everyone puts up to be socially acceptable particularly in the presence of the fairer(ugh) sex, cos theres nth sexier than a male feminist eh?"
i can give an opinion, sure.
i don't think men are women are equal (it's a bit like comparing apples and oranges to me) - i just believe that women deserve to be treated equally. and i don't think this is an issue which one can slice so neatly. not all men who believe in gender equality are doing so just to get into women's pants. not all women find male feminists attractive (my girlfriend being someone entirely unimpressed with my stance on women rights). even if i'm so inclined, i would think that pretending to be a feminist would be a pretty piss poor strategy to woo chicks with. i'm a feminist because i asked myself: how would this world be better and what would i want if i'm a woman. it's the same basic sense of empathy which motivates me to be a gay rights activist - and to my knowledge, it not because i want to get in the pants of gay men.
powerplays, if you ask me, underpins every relatioship and is not a gender issue at all. what's important to me (and should be to women) is to ensure they have enough power to play with. let's put this into a practical context: i doubt that a housewife, fully dependent on her husband, could do much to redress the balance of power in the partnership. the stakes are way higher for her. if he cheats on her, she might not call him out on it for fear it ends in a divorce and her without a lifeline. so, one of the most practical approach to an equal partnership is to be financially secure. this is just an example.
couples will always manipulate one another, even in same gender partnerships. my interest is the playing field, not the games played on it.
hmmmm that totally made me feel like I'm whinging abt a non-issue, which is great. i was terrified of The Game because i suck at it \: I don't doubt your empathy for women at all but I have the fault of manbashing as a knee-jerk reaction, coming from years of observing relationship dynamics of domesticated wives and the often begrudging husband, the work of housewives relegated to that of glorified maids etc- that has toned down somewhat now the more i realise abt families and social contexts.... i guess the issue is not being equal but having acess to equal opportunity eh? although justification for denying privileges usually involves our inferiority but i shall wilfully ignore that and do as i like since i do enjoy the privileges (:
regarding the crimes of religion, would you consider that religion could be just an easy excuse for human nature, as much as I am tempted to call Christianity BS and terroristic, it seems that it is only as bad as the religious leader in question, bad guys are just bad guys regardless of what god they call witness upon, and they may use religion to exert influence and perpetuate crimes same as any political system but religion is all the more handy because it is exempt from logical examination, dealing in the inexplicable supernatural and whatnot- more power to brainwashing- and it can do as much good, if the heart is willing...... but presumptive do-gooders who try to decide what is good for people they define as the other usually end up doing more harm than good.....but yeah i believe its not the religion thats the problem, it's the people
ap:"regarding the crimes of religion, would you consider that religion could be just an easy excuse for human nature"
let me put forth some questions to you. would the catholic church oppose abortion without compromise - even if the mother's life is in jeopardy - out of some misplaced belief that women deserve all the suffering they get in childbirth if they did not believe that god said so (genesis 3:16). would christians and muslims attempt to undermine science education (particularly the firmly established knowledge of big bang cosmology and the theory of evolution by natural selection) if they do not believe that their scriptures are always right and anything which disagree with their beliefs should be dismissed with extreme prejudice? would jehovah witnesses allow themselves and their children to perish from blood loss because their god said that they cannot accept blood transfusions? would japanese kamikaze pilots willingly sacrifice themselves if they did not think they were doing it in service to the divine emperor hirohito? would the multitude of muslim suicide bombers in the world today have done what they did - and will do what they are going to do - if they do not believe that they would be rewarded in the afterlife with 72 virgins by allah for their deeds?
voltaire said, "those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
and more to the point of your proposal, steven weinberg has this to say to you: "with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil — that takes religion."
even if i grant you your premise that the sum evil in this world wouldn't be diminished even in the absence of religion... so what? it doesn't make religion any truer. it doesn't make the reprehensible and antiquated values they espouse any more moral. leaving them lying around just give evil people more ammo to work with - and on this ground alone i believe we must oppose it.
as you yourself said,
"they may use religion to exert influence and perpetuate crimes same as any political system but religion is all the more handy because it is exempt from logical examination, dealing in the inexplicable supernatural and whatnot- more power to brainwashing..."
admittedly justified denunciations of Islam can easily be reversed onto the circulators' own Jesus cult
How can you make such fallacious statements? Do you know the terms "Descriptive" and "Perscriptive?" Do you know anything about Biblical theology? Did you know that Jesus came to FULFILL the law? Do you realize that people lived to the average age of 40 in Levitical days? Hmmm...that might have something to do with God giving the Prophets MANY wives. But two thousand years ago Jesus came and told us that LOVE is the FULFILLMENT of the LAW. Jesus cult? You hate Christians with a passion. The Quran is a perscription like the doctor gives you, the OT to a CHRISTIAN is a HISTORICAL book - not a guide to war.
Eh, crazy moderation.
I began responding to your article point by point, but you just really hate Christians and have absolutely no understanding of Biblical Theology.
When I started reading the Gen. 3 quote I stopped. Unbelievable. So I guess...God let Adam (man) off Scott free, right? Adam does not have to toil all his life and work the ground or any of that, right? Lol, its just the female that was chastised for eating the apple, right? ;) You are hypocritical and you methodology is defiantly inconsistent. Open up the Bible and try to read it, wont bite you.
Anonymous: "the OT to a CHRISTIAN is a HISTORICAL book - not a guide to war."
if you didn't stop reading at genesis quote, you'd see that half the verses i pulled are from the new testament.
"Jesus cult? You hate Christians with a passion."
what a strange thing to be surprised about. of course i hate christianity. why shouldn't i? it's a belief system that condemn unbelievers like me an eternity to torture. according to your christian beliefs, my grandparents are burning in your ever merciful god's flame right now regardless of what good people they've been when they were alive.
"When I started reading the Gen. 3 quote I stopped. Unbelievable. So I guess...God let Adam (man) off Scott free, right? Adam does not have to toil all his life and work the ground or any of that, right?"
you missed my main objection to that verse: "and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee"
and if leviticus was indeed descriptive, why are modern christians using leviticus 20:13 to justify god's condemnation of homosexuality?
for all your accusations of inconsistency, you sure display a lot of it.
p.s. i did read the bible. i went to church for part of my life.
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